Elizabeth Warren

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Frank the Crank
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Elizabeth Warren

Postby Frank the Crank » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:54 pm

Looks like Lizzy is 1/1024 Native American. What does this now mean for affirmative action? Maybe that Dolazel woman, you know the faux African-American, will actually be able to scrounge up some black DNA and get her old job back.

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Marie
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Marie » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:25 am

Frank the Crank wrote:Looks like [Sen. Warren] is 1/1024 Native American. What does this now mean for affirmative action?

Absolutely nothing. Which also describes the advantage Warren derived from reporting her distant heritage on forms when prompted: exactly ZERO. Such data are collected for lots of reasons having nothing to do with affirmative action. For example, if you were to apply for help at a state funded counseling center (in your case a good idea, actually!), they might ask you for all sorts of demographic info on the application. (You may also be surprised to learn that a great number of ppl whose families hail from OK have Native American ancestors, so Warren's %-age is just about on par.)

Btw, as I've explained to you previously, this forum wasn't created to provide a place for you to troll, and esp. not to insult public servants who are doing a good job. The agency Warren championed is protecting you and your perverse ilk from predatory business practices (though you hardly deserve it), along with all the taxpayers who agreed with its formation.

Next time, Frank, I suggest arriving here with a different attitude, or I may request that your creepy posts be stricken from the board.

-Marie-
PS, I bet you never expected Trump to cough up the million he promised if she could prove the claim -- just as nobody ever expected Hannity to allow himself to be waterboarded for charity. They think noone will call their fragile snowflake bluffs, then when someone does they try and play it off, but everybody can see what phony loudmouths they both are!!! :lol:
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Frank the Crank
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Frank the Crank » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:48 am

Warren is a fabulist. Sensing a need for enhanced status in the Democrat victim hierarchy she decided to make herself an indian. She might gain more status if she decides to go trans.

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Marie
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Marie » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:12 pm

Frank the Crank wrote:Warren is a fabulist.

Funny, you described Dr. Ford exactly the same way -- as a "fabulist." One way to spot a troll is by his limited vocabulary.

Trump threw down a challenge; Warren met it, and them some.

Now Trump's copping out. Just like Hannity.

Coupla would-be men, coupla weak chubby BABIES.

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Frank the Crank
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Frank the Crank » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:34 pm

Marie wrote:
Frank the Crank wrote:Looks like [Sen. Warren] is 1/1024 Native American. What does this now mean for affirmative action?

Absolutely nothing. Which also describes the advantage Warren derived from reporting her distant heritage on forms when prompted: exactly ZERO. Such data are collected for lots of reasons having nothing to do with affirmative action. For example, if you were to apply for help at a state funded counseling center (in your case a good idea, actually!), they might ask you for all sorts of demographic info on the application. (You may also be surprised to learn that a great number of ppl whose families hail from OK have Native American ancestors, so Warren's %-age is just about on par.)

Btw, as I've explained to you previously, this forum wasn't created to provide a place for you to troll, and esp. not to insult public servants who are doing a good job. The agency Warren championed is protecting you and your perverse ilk from predatory business practices (though you hardly deserve it), along with all the taxpayers who agreed with its formation.

Next time, Frank, I suggest arriving here with a different attitude, or I may request that your creepy posts be stricken from the board.

-Marie-
PS, I bet you never expected Trump to cough up the million he promised if she could prove the claim -- just as nobody ever expected Hannity to allow himself to be waterboarded for charity. They think noone will call their fragile snowflake bluffs, then when someone does they try and play it off, but everybody can see what phony loudmouths they both are!!! :lol:


I came here thinking this might have been a KO sports blog. I deplore Olbermann’s politics but like his baseball talk.
What I found was ignorant left wing talking points presented as fact. Progressive politics with it’s focus on skin color and perceived victimization is ruinous to the fabric of American life. I feel a moral obligation to counter the utter nonsense that you regurgitate here on a daily basis. MAGA

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Marie
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Marie » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:19 am

Frank the Crank wrote:What I found was ignorant left wing talking points presented as fact. Progressive politics with it’s focus on skin color and perceived victimization is ruinous to the fabric of American life. I feel a moral obligation to counter the utter nonsense that you regurgitate here on a daily basis. MAGA

"Moral obligation," horsefeathers. Trolling isn't moral. Supporting people who are working to right social wrongs, THAT is moral. Review the Declaration of Independence, Frank, re why governments are instituted. Governments, from village councils to complex systems like ours, are groups of people who earnestly work to solve society's perceived problems -- and not just the ones that YOU perceive, but practices of which you may not even be aware until those harmed by those practices BRING THEM TO YOUR ATTENTION. Then it's your business and mine to end those practices.

I say your business and mine because, unlike other countries that came before it, the USA is run by its citizens. We choose people to represent us, but it doesn't end there. We still have to listen without prejudice to people seeking redress (not dismiss their concerns by calling them "mobs"), and make sure our representatives are doing something about it.

Every time you bear false witness against someone like Elizabeth Warren, you undermine the country's mission. You can reasonably disagree with her proposals, but not misrepresent the facts regarding her history or call her preposterous names. You've misrepresented the way Warren's belief in her family's Native heritage came to the general public's attention in the first place: the Boston Globe published an article in 2012 about how her college had used info from their directory to prove its dedication to diversity. It may be that the college's defense was pretty thin, but Warren wasn't out there publicizing it. It was supposed to be for in-house demographic use, period. That's what I meant about the use of such details for other purposes besides affirmative action.

So here comes the Globe, in the midst of an election, mind you, and decides to be cute and throw a cherry bomb into the discussion. Try and convince me they didn't know Scott Brown would instantly mischaracterize the history. Everyone is allowed to say stuff about him- or herself that he or she believes to be true, ya know, without having to produce documents to prove it -- which is what was suddenly being demanded of her. It wasn't fair and you wouldn't like it if it were done to you.

There's plenty of information about that whole episode available online, Frank, including websites whose business it is to keep the record straight about such things. Before coming here, it would be nice if you informed yourself of the background, so we can have a richer discussion. If you do that, even if we disagree, your posts will be welcome. But don't expect me to accept descriptions such as "fabulist" lodged against people who are telling the truth. If you start off that way, you better be armed with the facts to prove it. In this case, sorry, but you clearly were not.

PS, if you really like KO's sports reporting you can catch him currently on ESPN (the mothership). They brought him back at the first of the year. The latest news re mainly his professional activities can be found in the first section of the forum's Index page, here: viewforum.php?f=70 . Also Keith's Twitter timeline is devoted mainly to sports and animal welfare (primarily animals in need of adoption). No politics. Maybe if we limit our discussion to that, we won't argue so much!

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Frank the Crank
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Frank the Crank » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:34 am

She's a bullshit artist.


The Complex, Childish Identity Politics of Elizabeth Warren’s Native Heritage
There’s nothing wrong with a little self-mythologizing when you’re young, but there comes a time to set aside childish things.
Nancy Rommelmann | October 16, 2018

There's a party trick my ex-husband, a member of the Creek Nation, told me about: The next time a white-looking person tells you they have Native American blood, look at them thoughtfully, maybe tilt their chin this way and that, and say, "I bet you're part Cherokee."

Nine times out of 10, the person will light up and say, "How did you know?"

At which point you can keep the trick going ("I see it in your profile…"), or chalk them up to being another member of the Wannabe tribe.

Non-Natives who "self-identify" as Native American, as Elizabeth Warren has done on paper as early as 1989, is something American Indians who come into contact with white people deal with constantly. (According to the Department of Health and Human Services, this is the majority of the 2.5 million Native Americans living in the U.S., only 22 percent of whom live on reservations.)

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Warren's political opponents claim she appropriated Native status for professional gain. In response, Warren yesterday trotted out the "Elizabeth Warren Family Story," a hodgepodge of umbrage-taking family and colleagues and one DNA expert to counter any claims that she was faking her heritage, which she says came directly from her grandmother. If this was Warren's attempt to stop Trump's schoolyard taunts (as if) and tip opinion in her favor, it was a spectacular failure.

In Warren's defense, there is a good possibility she could have Native blood, as do many people who came to Oklahoma in the 19th century. It was the territory to which the so-named Five Civilized tribes—Cherokee, Creek, Chickasaw, Choctaw, and Seminole—were forcibly relocated in 1838–1839, from the southeastern United States, via the death march that came to be known as the Trail of Tears. Those who made it to Oklahoma intermarried, the Cherokee primarily with whites (which is why the party trick works; alternately, the Choctaw often married freed and runaway slaves, though I have yet to meet a black person claiming Native blood; go figure).

Because it just really could have been, I believe Warren believes herself to be part Native, that she is one of the millions of Americans who have been told they have Native blood (though often don't); who, while wishcasting for identity, alight on Native American because #motherearth and #nicehair and because Natives tend to put up with white people parachuting in for a perceived spiritual hit.

In my experience, as a 100 percent white person who's spent three decades around Native people—who, also in my experience, usually refer to themselves as American Indians, or simply 'skins—Natives are amazingly tolerant of the wannabes. The woman who comes to Okmulgee, Oklahoma, every year from Germany to visit Grandma for a month but brings with her money and gifts and steaks for the barbecue? She can stay. The little orange-haired girl dancing at the powwow who, when my former brother-in-law asked, "What tribe are you?" answered, "I don't know but Mama knows," forever bequeathed us the "Mamaknows" tribe. My half-Native daughter's classmates who, during the 1997 drought in Los Angeles, suggested she lead them in a rain dance? They were second graders, in thrall to Pocahontas! They danced! And that was fine!

If we self-mythologize when we're young, most of us (who are not politicians) would be too ashamed, or would not see enough benefit, to keep the lies going. (I stopped telling people the Osmonds were my cousins around age 11, about the time a friend said he stopped talking about his "Aunt Raquel.") We don't need little lies anymore to feel special; we develop identities based on accomplishments, on facts, not feelings.

Warren's accomplishments, including her initial employment at Harvard, do not seem to be in doubt. What is, and should be, is why in her 30s she changed her racial designation from "white" to "Native American," claiming affiliation with the Cherokee and Delaware tribes. As anyone following this political football learned yesterday, no DNA test can prove you're Native American. Further, the Cherokee Nation secretary of state stated that Warren's gambit at "proving" her heritage, "makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses, while dishonoring legitimate tribal governments, whose ancestors are well-documented and whose heritage is well proven."

No amount of plaintive claiming from Warren that to question her Native roots is to "call my mother a liar," is going to change the fact that saying you are Native American does not make it so.

What qualifies you for Native status is tribal membership. Tribes, which are sovereign nations, set their own standards of blood quantum required to get a Certificate Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB) card. Within four hours of my daughter being born in California, her aunties in Oklahoma had gone to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Council and applied for her CDIB card. It is the only official document that makes her a legal citizen of the Creek Nation. Warren's 1/1054th, or whatever it is today, would certainly not allow her on the Cherokee Nation tribal rolls, which she has acknowledged.

Warren's grandmother did not apply for her CDIB, either because she did not see the need, or because she did not qualify, or because being a Native at that time was not a propitious thing to be. That was her choice. And then times changed and her granddaughter saw some benefit, which she now couches in terms of identity politics as a personal choice, and says that no matter what anyone says, her Native heritage will "always be etched on my heart."

Let's keep it there, shall we?


http://reason.com/archives/2018/10/16/t ... politics-o

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Marie
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Marie » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:45 am

Frank the Crank wrote:She's a bullshit artist.

Anybody can call names.

Y'all enjoy calling names, I understand that, Frank, but that's childish -- and as even your article suggests, it's time to put away childishness.

On the campaign trail, when you're regaling your base, maybe name-calling is all they require. But here it's different: here you need facts. And you aren't bringing it, Frank. By contrast, Warren took the DNA test that Trump demanded, and it showed she has Native DNA. Now he welshes on the contract because he doesn't want to part with his money.

Don't try to win an argument with an article from a conservative website, Frank. Only facts will win the day here.

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Marie
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Trump's talk is cheap. And we mean CHEAP.

Postby Marie » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:05 pm

Trump writes checks that his a--, oh wait, he already used up all his checks on sex workers.

Trump said he’d donate $1 million to charity if Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test to prove she’s
part Native American…so she did.



Donald Trump Owes Elizabeth Warren A Million Bucks


-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Frank the Crank
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Frank the Crank » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:14 pm

Trump did not say he'd give if she was part Indian. He said he'd give it if she could prove she's an Indian.
Seeing as she is 1/1024 something or other I think he should give $976 to his favorite charity in her name.
She has made a total fool of herself on this one. Score another win for Trump.

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Marie
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Marie » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:24 am

Frank the Crank wrote:Trump did not say he'd give if she was part Indian. He said he'd give it if she could prove she's an Indian.
Seeing as she is 1/1024 something or other I think he should give $976 to his favorite charity in her name. . . .

Re your first point: bull.

Because she proved what she claimed, which is that her family said they had Native heritage.

I hope if I'm ever in trouble I'll have a lawyer with your gift for PARSING and arguing something NOBODY EVER SAID to defend me, LOL.

As for your second point, Warren's DNA results concluded, "The generational range based on the ancestor that the report identified suggests she’s between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American" -- and perhaps closer to the top of the range since, "there could be missed ancestors." Remember, she's from Oklahoma. So, splittng the difference at 1/480 Native, Trump still owes a million to whichever charity Warren chooses.

Of course, we're talking about a man who takes money from his own charitable foundation to pay fines and legal settlements, not to mention purchase bigger-than-lifesize portraits of himself to decorate his resorts -- so who would be surprised that he's too tight to give a million to charity under ANY circumstances? Trump's fav charity has always been himself.

So get after him, Frank, and make him pay up all the folks he's promised $$$ to and left in the lurch.

Oh wait, I forgot: Trump doesn't have any money. Trump's bank account equals the size of his weenus. He's a total fake with only debts to show for his long and colorful career. [-(

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-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Marie
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Re: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Marie » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:54 am

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-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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