Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

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Marie
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Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby Marie » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:01 am

From New York Newsday:

To what degree is the left actually wary of Clinton?
By Froma Harrop
New York Newsday
August 20, 2016

THE HARD LEFT can be an unforgiving crowd, not always mindful of the give-and-take required to get things done. Donald Trump's fascist-lite ravings are anathema to them, but with moderate Republicans migrating to Hillary Clinton, some on the left worry that a President Clinton might feel less obliged to push a vigorous liberal program.

Or perhaps not. The political media thrives on a boiling pot. Clinton's widening lead in the polls drains some drama from the big story. The political punditry needs to drum up conflict, so why not revisit the alleged schism between Clinton and archliberals? The result is a largely fictional trend resting on a cherry-picked quote or two.

If the alliance between Clinton and moderate conservatives means finding common ground with reasonable Republicans, that would be a positive development, would it not? It would be a throwback to the era when the two parties made war but also made legislation.

Some of our friends on the right are saying, "Don't get your hopes up too high. This support for Clinton is a one-time deal. Once we bury the candidacy of the appalling Trump, it's back to the races." That's one possibility. Another is that Trump spreads his collapse down the ballot and a party (Republican or a new one) emerges from the rubble creating a right-of-center coalition able to work with the left-of-center one.

It's hard to imagine sophisticated liberals doubting Clinton's devotion to the cause after her recent speech on economic policy. (Unless it's been forgotten; Clinton gave it a whole week ago!) So let's refresh our memories on what she said.

Clinton called for raising taxes on the rich and adding new taxes on high-frequency traders and companies moving overseas. She would gradually raise the federal minimum wage from today's paltry $7.25 an hour to $12 an hour. Clinton would also hike spending on roads, airports and other infrastructure -- and on green energy -- by nearly $300 billion, creating some 7 million jobs. She'd make state and community colleges tuition-free for middle-class families.

These are core progressive proposals, some inspired or pushed along by Bernie Sanders' campaign. The Democratic Party platform, meanwhile, is being called the most progressive in history. So what would liberals complain about? It can't be that she welcomes the support of officials from the George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan administrations. The position that "we can't shake hands with the other party" is vulgar tea party militarism. (The Trump team would be doing backflips if prominent Democrats were defecting to its side.)

We get it. Some liberals would prefer that the race center more on their good proposals and less on what's so horrifying about Trump. That could explain why Adam Green of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee framed Clinton's desire to do big-tent politics as a "double-edged sword." Green also noted that revulsion toward Trump could bring more progressives into Washington, and that would be a good thing.

By the way, "moderate" is not a dirty word," but "mandate" may be becoming one. Some on the right are already saying, in the words of a former Ted Cruz aide, "Clinton is not likely to emerge with a legislative mandate." Let us recall that in the election of 2000, George W. won by 537 votes in Florida while losing the popular vote by a half-million. Nonetheless, he claimed a mandate, pushing through deep tax cuts for the rich, among other radical policies.

The mandate is whatever the winner decides it is. And if it's necessary to cut through partisan brambles to win the presidency in this highly divided country of ours, a sword with two edges can be very helpful.

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/is-the-l ... 1.12193628

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby PhilbertReturns » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:58 pm

No, we hate her guts.


Don't let anybody tell you different.
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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby Marie » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:40 pm

PhilbertReturns wrote:No, we hate her guts.

Don't let anybody tell you different.

You & that mouse in your pocket hang tough!

#hatersgonnahate Image

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby PhilbertReturns » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:03 pm

Marie wrote:
PhilbertReturns wrote:No, we hate her guts.

Don't let anybody tell you different.

You & that mouse in your pocket hang tough!

#hatersgonnahate Image

-Marie-



WTF?

Looks like your girl is doing everything in her power to lose the election. Have fun with that.
"That's why I do. I drink...and I knowthings."

-Tyrion Lannister

"Game of Thrones"

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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby dejapig » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:12 am

Fun, and life, as we know it will be dead if she doesn't get elected. :?
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss
Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig

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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby PhilbertReturns » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:10 pm

dejapig wrote:Fun, and life, as we know it will be dead if she doesn't get elected. :?



Oh I don't know...I plan on laughing at a lot of people should that come to pass.


::Is still convinced she's going to win...and fairly easily::
"That's why I do. I drink...and I knowthings."

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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby BrooklynBilly » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:02 am

PhilbertReturns wrote:
dejapig wrote:Fun, and life, as we know it will be dead if she doesn't get elected. :?



Oh I don't know...I plan on laughing at a lot of people should that come to pass.


::Is still convinced she's going to win...and fairly easily::


If you're betting I wouldn't spend the money...not just yet. Clinton wonders why she isn't 50 points ahead of Trump. Now there's a person with no ability for self reflection. While he scares me she absolutely sickens me. It's a good indication of just how debased our political system has become. Be true to yourself and vote for third party.
Nemo surdior est quam is qui non audiet

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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby Marie » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:46 am

BrooklynBilly wrote:Clinton wonders why she isn't 50 points ahead of Trump. Now there's a person with no ability for self reflection. While he scares me she absolutely sickens me. . . .

We saw what you did there, Billy: First you allege something about a candidate that she never "wondered" about (*she was suggesting -- via video -- a question HER AUDIENCE might be asking itself); then you judge her based on your untrue allegation!

No, there's been too much of such willful distortion throughout this race. You better get your facts straight before opening your big Billy bazoo if you hope to have any respect in this forum. You're of course entitled to your own opinions, but not your own "facts."

-Marie-
*The Democratic nominee raised the issue here during an address via video conference to a gathering in Las Vegas of the Laborers' International Union of North America. The former secretary of state ticked off her pro-union positions, including investing in infrastructure, raising the minimum wage and supporting collective bargaining. “Having said all this, ‘Why aren’t I 50 points ahead?’ you might ask. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... ?tid=sm_tw

BTW, here are some of the headlines, which go out of their way not to portray the context accurately:
Hillary Clinton wonders why she isn't beating Trump by 50 points
Hillary Clinton Awkwardly Shouts Her Way Through Speech: 'Why Aren't I 50 Points Ahead?!'
Hillary: I Don't Understand Why I'm Not 50 Points Ahead
Hillary Wants to Know: “Why Aren't I 50 Points Ahead?”
Confused Clinton Freaking Out: 'Why aren't I 50 points ahead?'
Hillary Clinton asks, 'Why aren't I beating this guy by 50 points
BREAKING: Hillary Officially In MELTDOWN Mode: 'Why Am I Not ...
Hillary Clinton has complete meltdown. Whines and panics, "Why aren't I 50 points ahead?'
Angry Hillary Asks, “Why Aren't I 50 Points Ahead” In The Polls?
Hillary LOSES IT On Camera When Asked About Trump's Lead
[she wasn't asked]
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby PhilbertReturns » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:38 pm

BrooklynBilly wrote:If you're betting I wouldn't spend the money...not just yet. Clinton wonders why she isn't 50 points ahead of Trump. Now there's a person with no ability for self reflection. While he scares me she absolutely sickens me. It's a good indication of just how debased our political system has become. Be true to yourself and vote for third party.



No never bet against the arrogance of the Clintons and the general stupidity of the Democratic Party, I agree. But all I know is that I've seen this happen the last 2 election cycles. The media screeched about how close the race was in 2008 between Obama and Clinton for the nomination and it really wasn't. They then screamed how close it was between McCain and Obama...and it wasn't. In 2012, they obsessed how close Romney was to Obama-and he never had a chance. The powers that be have decided that Clinton will be President, just like they decided it would be Bush in 2000. The odds are that Clinton is going to be president no matter how many votes are actually cast for her. Remember, the Republican dirty tricks division is largely sitting this one out. I doubt very much if "Ham" Rove will be fixing Diebolt machines in Herr Drumpf's favor this time.


It's no secret here that I am a Green and generally support Jill Stein but since she is not in the ballot here I might have to bite the bullet, hold my nose and vote for your man Johnson-as nuts as his positions are.
"That's why I do. I drink...and I knowthings."

-Tyrion Lannister

"Game of Thrones"

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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby Marie » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:39 pm

PhilbertReturns wrote:It's no secret here that I am a Green and generally support Jill Stein but since she is not in the ballot here I might have to bite the bullet, hold my nose and vote for your man Johnson-as nuts as his positions are.

If Johnson wins, he'll take the oath while biting his own tongue. Such a leader! :lol:

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby PhilbertReturns » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:35 pm

Marie wrote:
PhilbertReturns wrote:It's no secret here that I am a Green and generally support Jill Stein but since she is not in the ballot here I might have to bite the bullet, hold my nose and vote for your man Johnson-as nuts as his positions are.

If Johnson wins, he'll take the oath while biting his own tongue. Such a leader! :lol:

-Marie-



He won't win. That's the point.

Nobody can win except the anointed douchebag of either designated bought and paid for corporate party. That's why we're an international laughingstock.
"That's why I do. I drink...and I knowthings."

-Tyrion Lannister

"Game of Thrones"

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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby Marie » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:55 pm

PhilbertReturns wrote: That's why we're an international laughingstock.

Except that we're, very much, NOT a laughingstock. (It sounds eerily Trumpish when you say such things. 8-[ )

Could you maybe try to evaluate candidates the way you size up people normally? All this demonization just sounds nuts to me. It's clear Trump has some kind of personality disorder that places him outside any category from which we should choose a candidate much less a president, and if he weren't running I'd never give a thought to him. Hillary's a bit introverted, but so is half the population. So you don't want to have a beer with her!-- she studies hard and tries to do a good job, that's all you could ever expect of anybody -- since Jesus has made a decision to sit out the race this time.

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby PhilbertReturns » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:55 am

Marie wrote:
PhilbertReturns wrote: That's why we're an international laughingstock.

Except that we're, very much, NOT a laughingstock. (It sounds eerily Trumpish when you say such things. 8-[ )-Marie-


You clearly don't talk to people from other countries. I do all the time-thanks to the wonder of the Interwebs.

Yes, we're considered a sick joke by many. Our political system is corrupt garbage...and that's what we get for candidates. Corporatist Political hacks in the pockets of Wall Street...and NAZIS.

And nice way to throw a random ad hominem at me. I swear it's getting to the point that I see more reason coming out of Billy than you. And no, neither of us are voting for Herr Drumpf either.
"That's why I do. I drink...and I knowthings."

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"Game of Thrones"

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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby Marie » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:33 pm

PhilbertReturns wrote:
Marie wrote:
PhilbertReturns wrote: That's why we're an international laughingstock.

Except that we're, very much, NOT a laughingstock. (It sounds eerily Trumpish when you say such things. 8-[ )

Could you maybe try to evaluate candidates the way you size up people normally? All this demonization just sounds nuts to me. It's clear Trump has some kind of personality disorder that places him outside any category from which we should choose a candidate much less a president, and if he weren't running I'd never give a thought to him. Hillary's a bit introverted, but so is half the population. So you don't want to have a beer with her!-- she studies hard and tries to do a good job, that's all you could ever expect of anybody -- since Jesus has made a decision to sit out the race this time.

You clearly don't talk to people from other countries. I do all the time-thanks to the wonder of the Interwebs.

Yes, we're considered a sick joke by many. Our political system is corrupt garbage...and that's what we get for candidates. Corporatist Political hacks in the pockets of Wall Street...and NAZIS.

And nice way to throw a random ad hominem at me. I swear it's getting to the point that I see more reason coming out of Billy than you. And no, neither of us are voting for Herr Drumpf either.

1) I talk to people from other countries all the time over those very same Interwebs, Philbert, and guess what?-- they respect the US. They do wonder at the gullibility of some of our voters as they recognize HRC as a credible candidate in view of her knowledge of issues, personal familiarity with world leaders, and ability to work across the aisle with those of other political persuasions. In other words, she satisfies all the BFOQs; plus unlike Drumpf, she has no REAL corruption scandals (the way people from other countries define corruption: not the media-driven issue of "appearance," but the actual, provable fact of having doled out favors for money).

Yes, she's popular with Wall Street, but if you worked on Wall Street and your junior senator was able to secure 20-billion dollars to rebuild lower Manhattan after 9/11, you'd appreciate her effectiveness as a public servant as much as they do. They can't do or say enough to thank her and she doesn't need to do them any more favors b/c that was the Favor of favors.

2) I can understand your feeling stung at being compared to Trump in that one tiny thing you said -- but it's absolutely undeniable that it's the kind of exaggeration he indulges in when he tears down the US in order to portray himself as a big would-be savior.

So my counsel would be to stop saying stuff like that. There has been progress over here, and they still respect and depend on us over there. That's a FACT.

3) "More reason coming out of Billy." #-o

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Divide between the left and HRC exaggerated?

Postby PhilbertReturns » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:12 pm

Actually Marie, the Left (of which I am a member) has been arguing that the U.S. has been on the wrong path and has been headed for disaster for several decades now. If you think I'm negative, try listening to Chris Hedges some time. Your hair will fall out.

The fact that Drumpf says the same thing has nothing to do with us our the validity of our arguments.

In case you hadn't noticed, he is a thief, a liar and a sociopath.
"That's why I do. I drink...and I knowthings."

-Tyrion Lannister

"Game of Thrones"


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